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Lingering objects, replication on dc'sHi all, we got 4 dc's, one of em is 2k3 server with e2k3 installed, there's 2
other e2k servers but one will be retired, we've been getting some replication issues and I've searched here, so far I found stuff about lingering objects and possible out of sync times on the dc's(I checked this and fixed the time), we got events 2087, 1308, 2042 showing before, right now looked like the errors went away on the server that showed it the most, but when I add a user, or delete it doesn't seem to replicate to the other dc's, the errors I found were from the 2k3 with e2k3 server installed. I ran repadmin /showrepl and didn't show any errors, I don't know the syntax to /removelingeringobjects. I'm new to these kind of errors, our servers have been error free for a long time, now all of a sudden they show up and I'm not sure where to start, I was gonna call PSS but maybe try here first and save money, if anyone can shed some light and maybe pointers that would be great, thanks in advanced. the DC in error has been disconnected for too long (past the tombstone
lifetime) from other DCs (the meaning of event id 2042). Two ways to go: (1) force demote the DC in error (dcpromo /forceremoval), cleanup the metadata of the DC in error on other DCs (http://blogs.dirteam.com/blogs/jorge/archive/2005/12/03/213.aspx) (before doing this first check which DC holds the FSMO roles. if the DC in error contains the FSMO roles, continue as mentioned and SEIZE the FSMO roles to a healthy DC after demoting the DC in error, cleaning its metadata, but before promoting it again) (2) follow the procedure as mentioned in: http://technet2.microsoft.com/WindowsServer/en/Library/4f504103-1a16-41e1-853a-c68b77bf3f7e1033.mspx if the DC in error is the one with e2k3 then I guess option 2 is best for you as demoting a DC with e2k3 on it is an unsupported action. also check why the DC was disconnected for so long!!! -- Show quoteHide quoteCheers, (HOPEFULLY THIS INFORMATION HELPS YOU!) # Jorge de Almeida Pinto # MVP Windows Server - Directory Services BLOG --> http://blogs.dirteam.com/blogs/jorge/default.aspx ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- * This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no rights! * Always test before implementing! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "carlomd" <carl***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:7BA428CB-657D-40C8-BB05-8DFE9EBC7C7F@microsoft.com... > Hi all, we got 4 dc's, one of em is 2k3 server with e2k3 installed, > there's 2 > other e2k servers but one will be retired, we've been getting some > replication issues and I've searched here, so far I found stuff about > lingering objects and possible out of sync times on the dc's(I checked > this > and fixed the time), we got events 2087, 1308, 2042 showing before, right > now > looked like the errors went away on the server that showed it the most, > but > when I add a user, or delete it doesn't seem to replicate to the other > dc's, > the errors I found were from the 2k3 with e2k3 server installed. I ran > repadmin /showrepl and didn't show any errors, I don't know the syntax to > /removelingeringobjects. > I'm new to these kind of errors, our servers have been error free for a > long > time, now all of a sudden they show up and I'm not sure where to start, I > was > gonna call PSS but maybe try here first and save money, if anyone can shed > some light and maybe pointers that would be great, thanks in advanced. Yeah I guess it'll have to be #2, I took down the DC for a bios update, and
when I put it back the errors showed up. I wonder if the bios update did it, thanks for the reply. Show quoteHide quote "Jorge de Almeida Pinto [MVP]" wrote: > the DC in error has been disconnected for too long (past the tombstone > lifetime) from other DCs (the meaning of event id 2042). > Two ways to go: > (1) force demote the DC in error (dcpromo /forceremoval), cleanup the > metadata of the DC in error on other DCs > (http://blogs.dirteam.com/blogs/jorge/archive/2005/12/03/213.aspx) (before > doing this first check which DC holds the FSMO roles. if the DC in error > contains the FSMO roles, continue as mentioned and SEIZE the FSMO roles to a > healthy DC after demoting the DC in error, cleaning its metadata, but before > promoting it again) > (2) follow the procedure as mentioned in: > http://technet2.microsoft.com/WindowsServer/en/Library/4f504103-1a16-41e1-853a-c68b77bf3f7e1033.mspx > > if the DC in error is the one with e2k3 then I guess option 2 is best for > you as demoting a DC with e2k3 on it is an unsupported action. also check > why the DC was disconnected for so long!!! > > -- > > Cheers, > (HOPEFULLY THIS INFORMATION HELPS YOU!) > > # Jorge de Almeida Pinto # MVP Windows Server - Directory Services > > BLOG --> http://blogs.dirteam.com/blogs/jorge/default.aspx > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > * This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no rights! > * Always test before implementing! > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > "carlomd" <carl***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message > news:7BA428CB-657D-40C8-BB05-8DFE9EBC7C7F@microsoft.com... > > Hi all, we got 4 dc's, one of em is 2k3 server with e2k3 installed, > > there's 2 > > other e2k servers but one will be retired, we've been getting some > > replication issues and I've searched here, so far I found stuff about > > lingering objects and possible out of sync times on the dc's(I checked > > this > > and fixed the time), we got events 2087, 1308, 2042 showing before, right > > now > > looked like the errors went away on the server that showed it the most, > > but > > when I add a user, or delete it doesn't seem to replicate to the other > > dc's, > > the errors I found were from the 2k3 with e2k3 server installed. I ran > > repadmin /showrepl and didn't show any errors, I don't know the syntax to > > /removelingeringobjects. > > I'm new to these kind of errors, our servers have been error free for a > > long > > time, now all of a sudden they show up and I'm not sure where to start, I > > was > > gonna call PSS but maybe try here first and save money, if anyone can shed > > some light and maybe pointers that would be great, thanks in advanced. > > > These problems occur because the DC has been "disconnected" from other DCs
for more than the tombstone lifetime. Possible definition of "disconnected": (1) network link broke (2) troubles with DNS (3) misconfiguration within DNS (4) etc. -- Show quoteHide quoteCheers, (HOPEFULLY THIS INFORMATION HELPS YOU!) # Jorge de Almeida Pinto # MVP Windows Server - Directory Services BLOG --> http://blogs.dirteam.com/blogs/jorge/default.aspx ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- * This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no rights! * Always test before implementing! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "carlomd" <carl***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:F73DBAF0-13F7-438E-98CE-9FEC115E3209@microsoft.com... > Yeah I guess it'll have to be #2, I took down the DC for a bios update, > and > when I put it back the errors showed up. I wonder if the bios update did > it, > thanks for the reply. > > "Jorge de Almeida Pinto [MVP]" wrote: > >> the DC in error has been disconnected for too long (past the tombstone >> lifetime) from other DCs (the meaning of event id 2042). >> Two ways to go: >> (1) force demote the DC in error (dcpromo /forceremoval), cleanup the >> metadata of the DC in error on other DCs >> (http://blogs.dirteam.com/blogs/jorge/archive/2005/12/03/213.aspx) >> (before >> doing this first check which DC holds the FSMO roles. if the DC in error >> contains the FSMO roles, continue as mentioned and SEIZE the FSMO roles >> to a >> healthy DC after demoting the DC in error, cleaning its metadata, but >> before >> promoting it again) >> (2) follow the procedure as mentioned in: >> http://technet2.microsoft.com/WindowsServer/en/Library/4f504103-1a16-41e1-853a-c68b77bf3f7e1033.mspx >> >> if the DC in error is the one with e2k3 then I guess option 2 is best for >> you as demoting a DC with e2k3 on it is an unsupported action. also check >> why the DC was disconnected for so long!!! >> >> -- >> >> Cheers, >> (HOPEFULLY THIS INFORMATION HELPS YOU!) >> >> # Jorge de Almeida Pinto # MVP Windows Server - Directory Services >> >> BLOG --> http://blogs.dirteam.com/blogs/jorge/default.aspx >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> * This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no >> rights! >> * Always test before implementing! >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> "carlomd" <carl***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message >> news:7BA428CB-657D-40C8-BB05-8DFE9EBC7C7F@microsoft.com... >> > Hi all, we got 4 dc's, one of em is 2k3 server with e2k3 installed, >> > there's 2 >> > other e2k servers but one will be retired, we've been getting some >> > replication issues and I've searched here, so far I found stuff about >> > lingering objects and possible out of sync times on the dc's(I checked >> > this >> > and fixed the time), we got events 2087, 1308, 2042 showing before, >> > right >> > now >> > looked like the errors went away on the server that showed it the most, >> > but >> > when I add a user, or delete it doesn't seem to replicate to the other >> > dc's, >> > the errors I found were from the 2k3 with e2k3 server installed. I ran >> > repadmin /showrepl and didn't show any errors, I don't know the syntax >> > to >> > /removelingeringobjects. >> > I'm new to these kind of errors, our servers have been error free for a >> > long >> > time, now all of a sudden they show up and I'm not sure where to start, >> > I >> > was >> > gonna call PSS but maybe try here first and save money, if anyone can >> > shed >> > some light and maybe pointers that would be great, thanks in advanced. >> >> >> Another question, I read option #2, would it be safe to reinstall/repair 2k3,
with e2k3 intact? Probably my last resort is to put back all the mailboxes to the old 2k DC and then uninstall e2k3, reinstall the 2k3 DC, I'm trying to find a less messy fix. Thanks. Show quoteHide quote "Jorge de Almeida Pinto [MVP]" wrote: > the DC in error has been disconnected for too long (past the tombstone > lifetime) from other DCs (the meaning of event id 2042). > Two ways to go: > (1) force demote the DC in error (dcpromo /forceremoval), cleanup the > metadata of the DC in error on other DCs > (http://blogs.dirteam.com/blogs/jorge/archive/2005/12/03/213.aspx) (before > doing this first check which DC holds the FSMO roles. if the DC in error > contains the FSMO roles, continue as mentioned and SEIZE the FSMO roles to a > healthy DC after demoting the DC in error, cleaning its metadata, but before > promoting it again) > (2) follow the procedure as mentioned in: > http://technet2.microsoft.com/WindowsServer/en/Library/4f504103-1a16-41e1-853a-c68b77bf3f7e1033.mspx > > if the DC in error is the one with e2k3 then I guess option 2 is best for > you as demoting a DC with e2k3 on it is an unsupported action. also check > why the DC was disconnected for so long!!! > > -- > > Cheers, > (HOPEFULLY THIS INFORMATION HELPS YOU!) > > # Jorge de Almeida Pinto # MVP Windows Server - Directory Services > > BLOG --> http://blogs.dirteam.com/blogs/jorge/default.aspx > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > * This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no rights! > * Always test before implementing! > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > "carlomd" <carl***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message > news:7BA428CB-657D-40C8-BB05-8DFE9EBC7C7F@microsoft.com... > > Hi all, we got 4 dc's, one of em is 2k3 server with e2k3 installed, > > there's 2 > > other e2k servers but one will be retired, we've been getting some > > replication issues and I've searched here, so far I found stuff about > > lingering objects and possible out of sync times on the dc's(I checked > > this > > and fixed the time), we got events 2087, 1308, 2042 showing before, right > > now > > looked like the errors went away on the server that showed it the most, > > but > > when I add a user, or delete it doesn't seem to replicate to the other > > dc's, > > the errors I found were from the 2k3 with e2k3 server installed. I ran > > repadmin /showrepl and didn't show any errors, I don't know the syntax to > > /removelingeringobjects. > > I'm new to these kind of errors, our servers have been error free for a > > long > > time, now all of a sudden they show up and I'm not sure where to start, I > > was > > gonna call PSS but maybe try here first and save money, if anyone can shed > > some light and maybe pointers that would be great, thanks in advanced. > > > your best bet until now is following option 2 by cleaning the lingering
objects on the DC in error. This is done by comparing the contents of the database of the DC in error against a healthy DC. You need to do this for EVERY partition the DC in error hosts!!! Following the instructions mentioned in the URL I gave you -- Show quoteHide quoteCheers, (HOPEFULLY THIS INFORMATION HELPS YOU!) # Jorge de Almeida Pinto # MVP Windows Server - Directory Services BLOG --> http://blogs.dirteam.com/blogs/jorge/default.aspx ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- * This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no rights! * Always test before implementing! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "carlomd" <carl***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:564671FD-4EB8-48B6-B795-D26226D0F934@microsoft.com... > Another question, I read option #2, would it be safe to reinstall/repair > 2k3, > with e2k3 intact? Probably my last resort is to put back all the mailboxes > to > the old 2k DC and then uninstall e2k3, reinstall the 2k3 DC, I'm trying to > find a less messy fix. Thanks. > > "Jorge de Almeida Pinto [MVP]" wrote: > >> the DC in error has been disconnected for too long (past the tombstone >> lifetime) from other DCs (the meaning of event id 2042). >> Two ways to go: >> (1) force demote the DC in error (dcpromo /forceremoval), cleanup the >> metadata of the DC in error on other DCs >> (http://blogs.dirteam.com/blogs/jorge/archive/2005/12/03/213.aspx) >> (before >> doing this first check which DC holds the FSMO roles. if the DC in error >> contains the FSMO roles, continue as mentioned and SEIZE the FSMO roles >> to a >> healthy DC after demoting the DC in error, cleaning its metadata, but >> before >> promoting it again) >> (2) follow the procedure as mentioned in: >> http://technet2.microsoft.com/WindowsServer/en/Library/4f504103-1a16-41e1-853a-c68b77bf3f7e1033.mspx >> >> if the DC in error is the one with e2k3 then I guess option 2 is best for >> you as demoting a DC with e2k3 on it is an unsupported action. also check >> why the DC was disconnected for so long!!! >> >> -- >> >> Cheers, >> (HOPEFULLY THIS INFORMATION HELPS YOU!) >> >> # Jorge de Almeida Pinto # MVP Windows Server - Directory Services >> >> BLOG --> http://blogs.dirteam.com/blogs/jorge/default.aspx >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> * This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no >> rights! >> * Always test before implementing! >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> "carlomd" <carl***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message >> news:7BA428CB-657D-40C8-BB05-8DFE9EBC7C7F@microsoft.com... >> > Hi all, we got 4 dc's, one of em is 2k3 server with e2k3 installed, >> > there's 2 >> > other e2k servers but one will be retired, we've been getting some >> > replication issues and I've searched here, so far I found stuff about >> > lingering objects and possible out of sync times on the dc's(I checked >> > this >> > and fixed the time), we got events 2087, 1308, 2042 showing before, >> > right >> > now >> > looked like the errors went away on the server that showed it the most, >> > but >> > when I add a user, or delete it doesn't seem to replicate to the other >> > dc's, >> > the errors I found were from the 2k3 with e2k3 server installed. I ran >> > repadmin /showrepl and didn't show any errors, I don't know the syntax >> > to >> > /removelingeringobjects. >> > I'm new to these kind of errors, our servers have been error free for a >> > long >> > time, now all of a sudden they show up and I'm not sure where to start, >> > I >> > was >> > gonna call PSS but maybe try here first and save money, if anyone can >> > shed >> > some light and maybe pointers that would be great, thanks in advanced. >> >> >> Thanks Jorge, I'll give the cleanup a try, I may need help with the syntax
since I heard it's pretty complicated, I'll continue this on Mon evening, I'll keep you posted. thanks again. Show quoteHide quote "Jorge de Almeida Pinto [MVP]" wrote: > your best bet until now is following option 2 by cleaning the lingering > objects on the DC in error. This is done by comparing the contents of the > database of the DC in error against a healthy DC. > You need to do this for EVERY partition the DC in error hosts!!! > Following the instructions mentioned in the URL I gave you > > -- > > Cheers, > (HOPEFULLY THIS INFORMATION HELPS YOU!) > > # Jorge de Almeida Pinto # MVP Windows Server - Directory Services > > BLOG --> http://blogs.dirteam.com/blogs/jorge/default.aspx > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > * This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no rights! > * Always test before implementing! > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > "carlomd" <carl***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message > news:564671FD-4EB8-48B6-B795-D26226D0F934@microsoft.com... > > Another question, I read option #2, would it be safe to reinstall/repair > > 2k3, > > with e2k3 intact? Probably my last resort is to put back all the mailboxes > > to > > the old 2k DC and then uninstall e2k3, reinstall the 2k3 DC, I'm trying to > > find a less messy fix. Thanks. > > > > "Jorge de Almeida Pinto [MVP]" wrote: > > > >> the DC in error has been disconnected for too long (past the tombstone > >> lifetime) from other DCs (the meaning of event id 2042). > >> Two ways to go: > >> (1) force demote the DC in error (dcpromo /forceremoval), cleanup the > >> metadata of the DC in error on other DCs > >> (http://blogs.dirteam.com/blogs/jorge/archive/2005/12/03/213.aspx) > >> (before > >> doing this first check which DC holds the FSMO roles. if the DC in error > >> contains the FSMO roles, continue as mentioned and SEIZE the FSMO roles > >> to a > >> healthy DC after demoting the DC in error, cleaning its metadata, but > >> before > >> promoting it again) > >> (2) follow the procedure as mentioned in: > >> http://technet2.microsoft.com/WindowsServer/en/Library/4f504103-1a16-41e1-853a-c68b77bf3f7e1033.mspx > >> > >> if the DC in error is the one with e2k3 then I guess option 2 is best for > >> you as demoting a DC with e2k3 on it is an unsupported action. also check > >> why the DC was disconnected for so long!!! > >> > >> -- > >> > >> Cheers, > >> (HOPEFULLY THIS INFORMATION HELPS YOU!) > >> > >> # Jorge de Almeida Pinto # MVP Windows Server - Directory Services > >> > >> BLOG --> http://blogs.dirteam.com/blogs/jorge/default.aspx > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> * This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no > >> rights! > >> * Always test before implementing! > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> "carlomd" <carl***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message > >> news:7BA428CB-657D-40C8-BB05-8DFE9EBC7C7F@microsoft.com... > >> > Hi all, we got 4 dc's, one of em is 2k3 server with e2k3 installed, > >> > there's 2 > >> > other e2k servers but one will be retired, we've been getting some > >> > replication issues and I've searched here, so far I found stuff about > >> > lingering objects and possible out of sync times on the dc's(I checked > >> > this > >> > and fixed the time), we got events 2087, 1308, 2042 showing before, > >> > right > >> > now > >> > looked like the errors went away on the server that showed it the most, > >> > but > >> > when I add a user, or delete it doesn't seem to replicate to the other > >> > dc's, > >> > the errors I found were from the 2k3 with e2k3 server installed. I ran > >> > repadmin /showrepl and didn't show any errors, I don't know the syntax > >> > to > >> > /removelingeringobjects. > >> > I'm new to these kind of errors, our servers have been error free for a > >> > long > >> > time, now all of a sudden they show up and I'm not sure where to start, > >> > I > >> > was > >> > gonna call PSS but maybe try here first and save money, if anyone can > >> > shed > >> > some light and maybe pointers that would be great, thanks in advanced. > >> > >> > >> > > > Hi Jorge, I looked at the events carefully and I remembered after I did the
bios update, that reset the time on the DC back 60days to Jan 1st (I should have checked the bios time before letting it boot on the network), that's why it was thingking it's tombstoned, but there's no events 1988 & 1388 so I was wondering maybe there are no lingering objects, it just threw it out of whack, but there's still some replication issues, I noticed it replicates from my old 2k DC's to the new 2k3 DC, but looks like not vice versa. I'll try the repadmin cleanup command and see if it helps. Show quoteHide quote "Jorge de Almeida Pinto [MVP]" wrote: > your best bet until now is following option 2 by cleaning the lingering > objects on the DC in error. This is done by comparing the contents of the > database of the DC in error against a healthy DC. > You need to do this for EVERY partition the DC in error hosts!!! > Following the instructions mentioned in the URL I gave you > > -- > > Cheers, > (HOPEFULLY THIS INFORMATION HELPS YOU!) > > # Jorge de Almeida Pinto # MVP Windows Server - Directory Services > > BLOG --> http://blogs.dirteam.com/blogs/jorge/default.aspx > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > * This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no rights! > * Always test before implementing! > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > "carlomd" <carl***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message > news:564671FD-4EB8-48B6-B795-D26226D0F934@microsoft.com... > > Another question, I read option #2, would it be safe to reinstall/repair > > 2k3, > > with e2k3 intact? Probably my last resort is to put back all the mailboxes > > to > > the old 2k DC and then uninstall e2k3, reinstall the 2k3 DC, I'm trying to > > find a less messy fix. Thanks. > > > > "Jorge de Almeida Pinto [MVP]" wrote: > > > >> the DC in error has been disconnected for too long (past the tombstone > >> lifetime) from other DCs (the meaning of event id 2042). > >> Two ways to go: > >> (1) force demote the DC in error (dcpromo /forceremoval), cleanup the > >> metadata of the DC in error on other DCs > >> (http://blogs.dirteam.com/blogs/jorge/archive/2005/12/03/213.aspx) > >> (before > >> doing this first check which DC holds the FSMO roles. if the DC in error > >> contains the FSMO roles, continue as mentioned and SEIZE the FSMO roles > >> to a > >> healthy DC after demoting the DC in error, cleaning its metadata, but > >> before > >> promoting it again) > >> (2) follow the procedure as mentioned in: > >> http://technet2.microsoft.com/WindowsServer/en/Library/4f504103-1a16-41e1-853a-c68b77bf3f7e1033.mspx > >> > >> if the DC in error is the one with e2k3 then I guess option 2 is best for > >> you as demoting a DC with e2k3 on it is an unsupported action. also check > >> why the DC was disconnected for so long!!! > >> > >> -- > >> > >> Cheers, > >> (HOPEFULLY THIS INFORMATION HELPS YOU!) > >> > >> # Jorge de Almeida Pinto # MVP Windows Server - Directory Services > >> > >> BLOG --> http://blogs.dirteam.com/blogs/jorge/default.aspx > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> * This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no > >> rights! > >> * Always test before implementing! > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> "carlomd" <carl***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message > >> news:7BA428CB-657D-40C8-BB05-8DFE9EBC7C7F@microsoft.com... > >> > Hi all, we got 4 dc's, one of em is 2k3 server with e2k3 installed, > >> > there's 2 > >> > other e2k servers but one will be retired, we've been getting some > >> > replication issues and I've searched here, so far I found stuff about > >> > lingering objects and possible out of sync times on the dc's(I checked > >> > this > >> > and fixed the time), we got events 2087, 1308, 2042 showing before, > >> > right > >> > now > >> > looked like the errors went away on the server that showed it the most, > >> > but > >> > when I add a user, or delete it doesn't seem to replicate to the other > >> > dc's, > >> > the errors I found were from the 2k3 with e2k3 server installed. I ran > >> > repadmin /showrepl and didn't show any errors, I don't know the syntax > >> > to > >> > /removelingeringobjects. > >> > I'm new to these kind of errors, our servers have been error free for a > >> > long > >> > time, now all of a sudden they show up and I'm not sure where to start, > >> > I > >> > was > >> > gonna call PSS but maybe try here first and save money, if anyone can > >> > shed > >> > some light and maybe pointers that would be great, thanks in advanced. > >> > >> > >> > > > 
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