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Domain controller server planningWe are planning on implementing a new active directory controller in a
school district with around 1500 PCs. The server(s) will only handle logins... profiles & documents are hosted on seperate machines. How many servers do you recommend for 1500 PCs (around 3500 users). I know we will need at least a PDC and BDC. We were going to go for a single xeon 3.0 ghz, 2 gig ram, 3 x 36.4gig raid 5 for each server. Any suggestions? Thanks, Joe Some things to consider particularly in a school setting.
How many users are students, and will they be logging in on one workstation daily, or log in and out every period on different workstations ? ( How many login / logouts per user per day ) Also consider the likelyhood the students will have peak periods of login activity. Are 1500 users going to login within 10 minutes or so? Network topology and configuration too should be considered. Two such DC's in a biz environment probably would get along fine. Peak login events and the network topology might warrant consideration for a third DC in edu. -- Show quoteHide quote/kj <joe.gad***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1141878894.893176.276240@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com... > We are planning on implementing a new active directory controller in a > school district with around 1500 PCs. The server(s) will only handle > logins... profiles & documents are hosted on seperate machines. How > many servers do you recommend for 1500 PCs (around 3500 users). > > I know we will need at least a PDC and BDC. We were going to go for a > single xeon 3.0 ghz, 2 gig ram, 3 x 36.4gig raid 5 for each server. > > Any suggestions? > > Thanks, > Joe > Thanks for the advice. Almost all of the PCs are scattered throughout
the district in a sonic ring of sorts. They schools are all linked with a 4.5mb pipe to the main NOC. Most of the PCs (other than the office PCs) are actually in labs. So more than likely, the logins will occur in groups of 30-50 at hourly intervals. Do these DCs need to be clustered at all? or just beef up the PDC and BDC individually? Thanks. No clustering of DC's (!!!) and "PDC"/"BDC" are out of date concepts. DC's
are DC's except for the FSMO roles and GC's (global catalogs). All your DC's in a single domain should be GC's. How many schools with seperate links to the NOC? -- Show quoteHide quote/kj <joe.gad***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1141880565.551597.207590@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > Thanks for the advice. Almost all of the PCs are scattered throughout > the district in a sonic ring of sorts. They schools are all linked > with a 4.5mb pipe to the main NOC. > > Most of the PCs (other than the office PCs) are actually in labs. So > more than likely, the logins will occur in groups of 30-50 at hourly > intervals. > > Do these DCs need to be clustered at all? or just beef up the PDC and > BDC individually? > > Thanks. > I need to update my concepts a little bit .. still stuck on the NT
terminology. There at 7 schools... Thanks! So those DC's should support authentication of your users just fine.
But your "pipes" may get to be clogged with ~200 users sharing 4.5mb, assumming not just authentication but for other needs as well. Are you planning local file and print and "other" services for each campus? Might consider "available bandwidth" now and after implementation. -- Show quoteHide quote/kj <joe.gad***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1141881725.354850.205130@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... >I need to update my concepts a little bit .. still stuck on the NT > terminology. > > There at 7 schools... > > Thanks! > So do you think go with two or three DCs?
We are working on ugprading the pipes to 10 meg... they really only pay a few thousand/year for all of the pipes in total. (CHEAP!) As of right now all of the servers are in the NOC and nobody complains... we're going to check it out and see how it is all performing. This is a new customer. Thanks! I don't think a third DC would give you a good investment return, assuming
these are new and commercial server platforms. I'd probably be more inclined to add second processors before adding a third DC. -- Show quoteHide quote/kj <joe.gad***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1141882810.072221.155180@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com... > So do you think go with two or three DCs? > > We are working on ugprading the pipes to 10 meg... they really only pay > a few thousand/year for all of the pipes in total. (CHEAP!) > > As of right now all of the servers are in the NOC and nobody > complains... we're going to check it out and see how it is all > performing. This is a new customer. > > Thanks! > IMHO, you'd benefit more from a second proc and 4gb RAM with the /3gb
boot.ini switch. This will allocate more RAM to user processes, such as lsass. neil Show quoteHide quote "kj" wrote: > I don't think a third DC would give you a good investment return, assuming > these are new and commercial server platforms. > I'd probably be more inclined to add second processors before adding a third > DC. > > -- > /kj > <joe.gad***@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:1141882810.072221.155180@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com... > > So do you think go with two or three DCs? > > > > We are working on ugprading the pipes to 10 meg... they really only pay > > a few thousand/year for all of the pipes in total. (CHEAP!) > > > > As of right now all of the servers are in the NOC and nobody > > complains... we're going to check it out and see how it is all > > performing. This is a new customer. > > > > Thanks! > > > > > I have an old dc sizing document from 2000 days I still use for refrence. It
is in fact dated particularly relative to modern hardware. I'm also not discounting benifits of additional RAM, but for what it's worth, here's a quote from their testing; ---- Taking into consideration the above results, the customer determined that a single 500 MHz quad-processor domain controller with 512 MB of RAM could support 17,000 users in production (17,000 users could be interactively logged on within a 10-minute interval). Therefore, a 90,000-user domain would only require five domain controllers to support the environment (not including any GC requirements). Note: The domain controller testing showed that additional processors provided the largest performance increase. 512 MB of additional RAM did not seem to have a significant impact on the performance of the system. ---- -- Show quoteHide quote/kj "Neil Ruston" <NeilRus***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:F93C96E6-8EBC-4BCC-8F12-12E353ABE80A@microsoft.com... > IMHO, you'd benefit more from a second proc and 4gb RAM with the /3gb > boot.ini switch. This will allocate more RAM to user processes, such as > lsass. > > > > neil > > > > "kj" wrote: > >> I don't think a third DC would give you a good investment return, >> assuming >> these are new and commercial server platforms. >> I'd probably be more inclined to add second processors before adding a >> third >> DC. >> >> -- >> /kj >> <joe.gad***@gmail.com> wrote in message >> news:1141882810.072221.155180@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com... >> > So do you think go with two or three DCs? >> > >> > We are working on ugprading the pipes to 10 meg... they really only pay >> > a few thousand/year for all of the pipes in total. (CHEAP!) >> > >> > As of right now all of the servers are in the NOC and nobody >> > complains... we're going to check it out and see how it is all >> > performing. This is a new customer. >> > >> > Thanks! >> > >> >> >> I would not expect a jump from 512mb to 1gb to show much perf improvement.
However, if you increase to say 4gb and use the /3gb switch, you may be able to cache the whole db and indexes and then the perf changes really show :) neil Show quoteHide quote "kj" wrote: > I have an old dc sizing document from 2000 days I still use for refrence. It > is in fact dated particularly relative to modern hardware. I'm also not > discounting benifits of additional RAM, but for what it's worth, here's a > quote from their testing; > ---- > Taking into consideration the above results, the customer determined that a > single 500 MHz quad-processor domain controller with 512 MB of RAM could > support 17,000 users in production (17,000 users could be interactively > logged on within a 10-minute interval). Therefore, a 90,000-user domain > would only require five domain controllers to support the environment (not > including any GC requirements). > > Note: The domain controller testing showed that additional processors > provided the largest performance increase. 512 MB of additional RAM did not > seem to have a significant impact on the performance of the system. > > ---- > -- > /kj > "Neil Ruston" <NeilRus***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message > news:F93C96E6-8EBC-4BCC-8F12-12E353ABE80A@microsoft.com... > > IMHO, you'd benefit more from a second proc and 4gb RAM with the /3gb > > boot.ini switch. This will allocate more RAM to user processes, such as > > lsass. > > > > > > > > neil > > > > > > > > "kj" wrote: > > > >> I don't think a third DC would give you a good investment return, > >> assuming > >> these are new and commercial server platforms. > >> I'd probably be more inclined to add second processors before adding a > >> third > >> DC. > >> > >> -- > >> /kj > >> <joe.gad***@gmail.com> wrote in message > >> news:1141882810.072221.155180@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com... > >> > So do you think go with two or three DCs? > >> > > >> > We are working on ugprading the pipes to 10 meg... they really only pay > >> > a few thousand/year for all of the pipes in total. (CHEAP!) > >> > > >> > As of right now all of the servers are in the NOC and nobody > >> > complains... we're going to check it out and see how it is all > >> > performing. This is a new customer. > >> > > >> > Thanks! > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > > I'm not disagreeing at all Neil. My instinct too would be to boost RAM. Just
posting results from a (dated) whitepaper for discussion / debate purposes. I'd really like to see the same whitepaper or test results based upon current SW/HW technologies. -- Show quoteHide quote/kj "Neil Ruston" <NeilRus***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:072AFCAD-7BE3-43D1-92FC-5363D56085D8@microsoft.com... >I would not expect a jump from 512mb to 1gb to show much perf improvement. > However, if you increase to say 4gb and use the /3gb switch, you may be > able > to cache the whole db and indexes and then the perf changes really show :) > > neil > > > > > "kj" wrote: > >> I have an old dc sizing document from 2000 days I still use for refrence. >> It >> is in fact dated particularly relative to modern hardware. I'm also not >> discounting benifits of additional RAM, but for what it's worth, here's a >> quote from their testing; >> ---- >> Taking into consideration the above results, the customer determined that >> a >> single 500 MHz quad-processor domain controller with 512 MB of RAM could >> support 17,000 users in production (17,000 users could be interactively >> logged on within a 10-minute interval). Therefore, a 90,000-user domain >> would only require five domain controllers to support the environment >> (not >> including any GC requirements). >> >> Note: The domain controller testing showed that additional processors >> provided the largest performance increase. 512 MB of additional RAM did >> not >> seem to have a significant impact on the performance of the system. >> >> ---- >> -- >> /kj >> "Neil Ruston" <NeilRus***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message >> news:F93C96E6-8EBC-4BCC-8F12-12E353ABE80A@microsoft.com... >> > IMHO, you'd benefit more from a second proc and 4gb RAM with the /3gb >> > boot.ini switch. This will allocate more RAM to user processes, such as >> > lsass. >> > >> > >> > >> > neil >> > >> > >> > >> > "kj" wrote: >> > >> >> I don't think a third DC would give you a good investment return, >> >> assuming >> >> these are new and commercial server platforms. >> >> I'd probably be more inclined to add second processors before adding a >> >> third >> >> DC. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> /kj >> >> <joe.gad***@gmail.com> wrote in message >> >> news:1141882810.072221.155180@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com... >> >> > So do you think go with two or three DCs? >> >> > >> >> > We are working on ugprading the pipes to 10 meg... they really only >> >> > pay >> >> > a few thousand/year for all of the pipes in total. (CHEAP!) >> >> > >> >> > As of right now all of the servers are in the NOC and nobody >> >> > complains... we're going to check it out and see how it is all >> >> > performing. This is a new customer. >> >> > >> >> > Thanks! >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 
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